So many people love the idea of having a business that means they can work when they want, where they want.
There's also the thought of putting yourself and family in a better financial situation and genuinely helping other people (you know employees, clients and real people). But so many people put their business plans on the back burner.
Then one day they realise they are 60 years old and they missed their chance to try this.
My good friend and old colleague, Moe Saghier from Edventures Recruitment, explains what made him take the leap and start his own start up. We chat about:
- The importance of just starting
- How finding someone else who has done what you want to do can save so much wasted time and money
- Why your mindset is one of the most overused words in a start ups vocabulary
- And much more
The Start Up Mindset
From Edventures Recruitment
Make Time Online Podcast on iTunes - Online Entrepreneur Tips
Listen to the full Moe Saghier podcast episode
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Resources and tips mentioned in the podcast
Here are some of the best tips and resources mentioned in the podcast...
- Taking a step back and giving yourself more time can help you reflect on what you want from life.
- Mentors are super important to avoid pitfalls & fast-track progress
- Upwork or Fiverr (outsource work and find freelancers)
- Onlinejobs.ph (freelancers from the Philippines)
- Just going through the process helps you to learn (i.e. interviewing other people helped Moe to refine his vision)
- The Lean Startup (Eric Ries book- how to build a startup- as low cost as possible and testing ideas as quick as possible)
- Rich Dad Poor Dad (Robert Kiyosaki book- that Moe and I found changed our mindset. Read my review here)
- Millionaire Fastlane (MJ De Marco book- my most highly recommended business book... I also love his second one Unscripted. Read my review here)
- 4 Hour Work Week (Tim Ferris- outsourcing work)
- The Slight Edge (Jeff Olson- Perfect for creating good habits)
- Complete Guide to Money (Dave Ramsey- this isn’t an affiliate link as I don’t recommend this book! That’s the link for my review of it… I wrote this review ages ago and it makes me cringe a bit if you want to see how my site has changed for a laugh!)
(These are all Amazon affiliate links and I will earn a small commission at no extra cost to you if you purchase any of these books through these links.)
You can find what I learnt from reading over 100 books in 3 years, with my top book recommendations here.
Full Moe Saghier Podcast Transcript
Moe Saghier 0:00
That step back is like so important, like, fit. Like there’s, you know, all these is when you start this process of, you know, trying to start create something for yourself all these, you know, sayings or quotes that you’ve heard along the way start making sense. Finally, are they making sense like, you know, you learn more in failure than you do in success that sort of thing is it’s like, it’s true. It’s like when you’ve had you’ve had that kind of moment where you’re like, not doing as well as you thought you should have been. You really come away with a lot more than than all those times that you were successful or you did get the job or you did get the promotion, that sort of
Mike Beatty 0:36
thing guys, it’s Mike from Make Time Online, and today we’re joined by Moe Saghier from Edventures Recruitment.com.
So I actually know mo from working in Qatar. We both were teachers in a school in Qatar, and he is kind of like just really starting up a new app, a new website and a new idea. And I thought it would be a really good idea to get him on the podcast just to kind of like explain some of the
thinking that he’s gone through and some of the concepts and things that he’s actually done. And the way he’s actually got an idea and started executing it, because this is where a lot of people kind of get ideas in their heads, but then they struggle to execute. But also, it’s really helpful. This chat will be really helpful for if you’ve got any interest in like hiring other people or outsourcing work, and just like mindset, like business mindset in general. So if that is you, then I 100% recommend listening to this chat. If you like if you just want to skip the last few minutes and find out the few takeaways that I took from the chat. Then you can just get the last few minutes but if not, it’s a really good one. So hope you enjoy it.
All right, my first question, I always like to get a story from someone. So I know obviously, I know your story a little bit. But I want to know, did you have this? It’s called an FTP. I read it in a book once, and it’s basically fuck this event is what he calls it in the book. And quite often entrepreneurs get this f t, apparently, before they actually dive in. Was there like one thing that happened where you’re like, Yeah, fuck this.
Moe Saghier 2:32
Yeah, probably wasn’t one thing. It was probably lots of things. Lots of those events. No, actually, yeah, there was definitely one thing it was an experience with a recent
Unknown Speaker 2:46
employer where I didn’t feel my contributions were valued at what they should have been. And, you know, I made the decision to move home. I like it as a human. You know? others out there listening don’t know, I was international for the last 10 years, my wife and I were working in international schools. And, you know, we went through the recruitment process so many times. And it was just time to move home. And then and then we moved home. And then we realised, hey, it’s actually a different, whole different situation back here in Canada, and Ontario with getting teaching jobs is that you can’t just apply and get a job and go there’s, there’s a process. So part of part of the inspiration was, you know, just waiting around a couple months for the school year to submit, you know, first of all, to interview for the position and then for the school year to start and then for me to start getting my name out there. So I guess my FTP was a chain of events that led up to kind of like a two or three month period where I really didn’t have much to do other than you know, of course, be a father and a husband and a son. So, yeah, I guess my FTP was a three month low in action and otherwise busy life.
Mike Beatty 4:08
I suppose like that is it? Well, there’s no better reason is there then to actually start and try and do something yourself then? Yeah, like you say having a bit of a low I guess it’s quite a big empty.
Unknown Speaker 4:22
Yeah, life was so busy up until that point that was the thing it was just like one thing after another and you really didn’t have a stop a chance to stop and think like, Am I am I am I being fulfilled with what I’m currently doing? am I passionate about what I’m doing? And then, you know, lo and behold, life throws, uh, you know, a little bit of downtime your way and you start thinking you’re like, I’m not really engaged, you know, fully in what I’m doing or passionate about where I am at life. And once you do have that moment to just sit there and think ideas start to flow surprisingly enough.
Mike Beatty 4:58
It honestly is amazing. How many people I speak to on like, even on the podcast and stuff who start in a very, very similar way really, it’s almost like something that’s not it’s not necessarily something like a decision that they’ve made it’s more an event that’s actually happened and I just thought it you know that with your story is obviously very, very similar really, and I’m excited to see like, what’s gonna happen anyway in the future, but I just wondered like, if you could share, what was that the first thing so obviously, you’ve got this idea in your head to create ICA. Well, can you explain that what the idea is?
Unknown Speaker 5:36
Well, the idea is a a membership app application, a mobile application to basically streamline the process of teacher recruitment. Not only to take out you know, the expense to teachers and schools themselves are seriously limit it. But to make it a little bit more transparent, I remember my wife and I, we had applied We were working with a recruiter a few years back. And the recruiter set up one interview and it was like, we had one Skype conversation, they set up one interview, the school that interviewed us wanted us, but then we did our research and we realised it wasn’t a good fit for us. And it was like the recruiter had got so upset with us that we had, you know, somehow wasted his time by not deciding to you know, move to another country. Three years of our lives there and he was just so upset and I thought to myself, I’m like that is that that that process is like, is so nuanced with so many things that we actually didn’t know as teachers like we didn’t know that the recruiter was getting paid for, you know, was going to get paid a finder’s fee for each of us, you know, accepting the job and and completing. We didn’t know the name of the school before we we had applied
Mike Beatty 6:50
was that when you were in Kuwait?
Unknown Speaker 6:52
we that’s when we were in Kuwait, and it was supposed to be it was it was a job in the Emirates somewhere. I can’t remember which Emirate But, you know, we felt like it wasn’t even a lateral move, like, the school that was we were interviewed for was like going to be actually, you know, a step down from where we were. And you know, with international teaching, you’re always kind of trying Well, you know, for some people, you’re trying to climb that ladder and you know, get to a school where, you know, you feel really comfortable and you feel valued and what not. So that was one experience. The other experience was when I was I was working as a middle school principal, and I had to actually work with recruiters, and I just spent so much time emailing a recruiter back and forth before I even ever gotten in front of a candidate. And then, you know, like, you’re going to interview people, and they’re going to realise, like, like my wife, and I did that the job’s not for them, and they’re not going to take you up on that offer. And it was like for every 10 interviews that I was doing, I was, you know, landing one teacher to come to the school for the following here. And, you know, for all the for each every of those 10 interviews, I was probably sending five or six emails. Back and forth. And that, you know, would, by the time all of a sudden done, you’re like three weeks into the recruiting process, and you’re just getting to talk to the candidate. So I, I, based my experience. Well, the idea for the app comes from like, having both of those experiences having like a negative experience as a, as a teacher, trying to find your next destination. And as, you know, as a principal trying to recruit teachers to your school, I just felt like there was so much in terms of time and energy and money and transparency that could have been done better. And then lo and behold, I go for a coffee with a gentleman who later becomes my mentor. And he’s the one that he talks me through this process. And, you know, mentorship is important when the creative process I mean, so much of the creative process is, is like so riddled with, you know, self doubt and worry. And when you have a mentor or someone who’s like, what even if they’re just one step ahead, then you You know, they lead you down certain paths and it just you miss you dodge so many of the landmines you would otherwise.
Mike Beatty 9:06
Yeah. So have you noticed it was like a friend or
Unknown Speaker 9:11
just it was just as a childhood friend that he works. He works as and you know, hadn’t spoken to him in years either it was just a coffee. It was like a coffee after coming back after 10 years, he told me he’s working on a fitness app himself. And, you know, he’s like, he was so into the process. And he was telling me and I’m like, and it was weird because I had read a written a read, sorry, an Instagram post before, just before going to him and, you know, talking about, you know, new industries cut in, you know, in the 21st century and whatnot. And one of the things was, you know, building membership based apps and it was like, that little piece of knowledge based on the FTP is based on a random coffee and someone you know, going out on this journey themselves, and it was just, it was a week after that, that the ball was rolling. Like everything started from that point. That’s crazy.
Mike Beatty 10:02
So it was literally you had a chat with him a week later. So what was like your first step? Because obviously, you’ve got the idea, then you want to build this like, membership app. I was what’s your first thing to do? Was that kind of where he was quite helpful?
Unknown Speaker 10:20
The first Yeah, well, Yes, he was. He’s been helpful every step of the way. Actually. The first step was to actually do some research and see is it did I just come up with somebody else’s idea? Was this idea already out there in the in the market and how was it doing, you know, and if it was doing well, was there space for competition? And after looking and searching and, you know, as an international teacher, you’re familiar with a lot recruiter. So you know, it wasn’t hard to start the search. I realised that it wasn’t out there. No one had done it before. So that was the first step research. And then after that, you know, passion. took over and then you start wiring, you start doing something called wireframing. Where, okay, this is what the app is going to look like. But you do it in a, in such a basic way. Since you don’t have any IDE, since I didn’t have any technical ability, it’s like kind of like a rough copy for an essay or something. You know, this is where this button would be this information would be helpful for the school to know about a teacher, and you start brainstorming your whole idea.
Mike Beatty 11:26
Yeah, no, it makes it makes sense to them flat once you’ve got like the plan and everything for for the app. How did you because well, I know you don’t know how to like build an app by yourself and do that sort of stuff. So how did you like even think What to do?
Unknown Speaker 11:45
So I am someone who has like, zero initially, I’m learning quickly. Initially, I would have said I have zero technical abilities. I could turn a computer on I can use it. I can send an email, that sort of thing. I’m great, you know, using apps and And downloading them really had a basic basic basic understanding I guess like a, you know, a common man’s understanding of technology. But it’s funny there are, you don’t always need certain skill you can use other skills that you have in order to help you develop new skills 10 years working in the Middle East in those expat communities, you’re you’re communicating, you’re learning how to communicate in an entirely different way. Like you’re learning how to communicate with people from India and Pakistan. And, you know, you have your Kiwis and the Aussies and people from all over the world and, and you develop this sense of, you know, being able to blend in and talk the talk. And, and basically, what helped me was was was those 10 years of being able to communicate because then I just got on a website called Upwork. Yeah. Where you can you know, I think you’re familiar, you’ve done some work with a similar But you can you can hire freelancers, you can hire people who have the know how. And the only thing that you need to be or do is be clear vision and understand what you want, and be able to communicate with them. You know, I must say when I would look for a designer for the app, so someone who took my frames and actually turned them into something professional looking, I must have interviewed about 15 people through Skype. And in each conversation that I had, I actually my vision became a little bit more clear. So sorry for those, you know, first 14 people wasting their time, but I learned a lot from them, right? Like I learned it, you know, the vocabulary, the lingo, the types of programmes that they might use, and then I would use that information later on in the you know, in further interviews to actually sound like I knew what I was talking about.
Mike Beatty 13:51
That’s really cool. So you’re actually using the interview process that to learn for yourself and then use that later.
Unknown Speaker 13:58
And like going back to like, Again, again, your lived experience is like so important in this, in the whole creative process is like, you don’t know why you’ve had certain experience or sometimes they just come out, you know, organically and you’ve had these experiences that like, I wouldn’t have known how to interview someone if I didn’t do those hundred interviews, you know, for those 10 candidates that I had when I was working as a middle school principal, so I was able to, you know, rely on those previous experiences to help me get through the interview process. Did you have these people? These are freelancer, sorry, like so these are people who are trying to get your project so they’re interviewing for you, right? So you’re kind of in a position of power there.
Unknown Speaker 14:36
So did you um,
Mike Beatty 14:39
how did you do it? Did you have like email sequences or anything? Like Did you have some questions before or was it just literally anyone that applied? You just hopped on Skype and had a chat with them?
Unknown Speaker 14:49
Yeah, well, so Upwork they, they really they really help you. They have templates basically, like they’re saying what you know, what type of job are you looking to What looking job are you trying to hire a freelancer for? And they, you know, they say oh, if you’re looking for a designer, you can use this template where, you know, they have like the bait the bare bones skeleton of what your job posting should look like. And then you put in your own personal information. Having a mentor again, who was a couple steps ahead of me at this point in their own process, was he able to talk you through talk me through the process as well so I mean, you just got to be willing to take a chance and be able to learn new things and listen and communicate and and find the resources it’s like the day of the internet like every answer is out there you can you can find what you’re looking for.
Mike Beatty 15:44
I think that’s the that’s the really frustrating and kind of cool thing at the same time is like everything is available for free. Literally every single information on this process, right
Yeah, well, yeah. So like when I when I went through that as well, What amazed me and again, I just used it was It was just another guy’s training basically, within the community that I often use. And I just went through that step by step. And what really amazed me is that, you know, like, that’s how I that’s how I envisioned this process going. I envision like, you know, getting applicants and I envision getting on Skype and lots of to and fro and things like that. It was like I was I was hiring for a writer. So it literally doesn’t matter at all, to me how they communicate face to face, All I care about is how they put words on paper and where they can do the research and things like that and follow instructions and light be willing to learn. Those are the sort of things I was looking for. So I actually hired the guy, I had 50 different applicants and I actually hired the employee, the writer, employees, I say, look at you with your employees.
I actually hired him without having a face to face chat or speaking to him in person. It could have been made up for I know, but I just went through like this series of email, but he was like, send this email first with these questions, then if they sound right, then send them this email. And it just kind of bought everything out that you needed to know about them. And I was like, this is so much easier. You know, it was like 50 people, I did it within a week, literally from sending out the application to hiring the person. And then I think in the end I sent out for for actual, like tests, almost It was like, This is the key word I want you to research and not write for me and then send it back. And that was like, that was huge. You know, but I guess with an app, you can’t really do that can you can just go make the app for me and then send it back.
Unknown Speaker 17:45
And that’s and that’s the the the nerve wracking part is like if especially if you don’t have extensive knowledge, it would be very easy to get duped, right, but that’s why you go through a website like Upwork or I think there’s another one called Fiverr Where there’s like, there’s kind of insurance policies built in, like, you know, even if you were to sign a contract, and if you were to pay, and then you realise, Hey, I got, you know, I got a lemon on my hands, you could go through Upwork. And they would be able to somehow get you a partial or a full refund.
Mike Beatty 18:19
I didn’t know that. Yeah, I’ve heard I’ve heard some horror stories from Fiverr, to be honest, but I didn’t know you could do that with Upwork.
Unknown Speaker 18:26
Like, I’m sure these sites are developing, and they’re always you know, with more and more and then they even have like consultants. So like, when you actually open a contract, you’ll get a message from one of the Upwork employees and they’ll say, you know, how’s it going and then if you want to schedule a call and talk about it and that sort of thing. So they kind of have these like fail safes built in so anyone can really use it sounds like I’m really a part member, owner of Upwork.
Mike Beatty 18:51
No, actually just that that’s reminded me of something we chatted yesterday and a point that we kind of made brought up was I use online jobs dot pH which is like Filipinos mainly Filipinos. And I think knowing like your, your audience and like the person that knowing what you’re actually trying to get someone to help you do is really, really important for which platform because like I was saying to you typically, this is a very big stereotype. Typically, Filipinos have good English. And so if you’re looking to hire a cheaper writer, that’s actually quite a good place to go, sort of thing to online jobs.ph whereas I didn’t know that I didn’t know any of this before going through this training and stuff. Whereas obviously, like Upwork, and things like that Fiverr you’ve got people all over the world. So if you’re looking for like different things, so like software development or app development, it could be somewhere else it doesn’t you know, boys like the Philippines is really really good for writers and people if you need someone to be doing like English speaking and stuff like that. I just thought that was a really cool thing to do. And obviously that is a stereotype. Obviously, you can find great ones on at work. And obviously, you can find great app developers and stuff on online jobs.ph or whatever. But it just, I hadn’t even thought of it, you know, hadn’t even thought of that thing of actually thinking about what it is that you want done, and then decide what platform to use after that.
Moe Saghier 20:18
Yeah, I mean, just going on what you said. You know, there are some jobs where spoken English is not super important, like my designer. Yeah. So and don’t go, if anybody’s looking for a designer, dependable, go reach out to me, I’ll put you in contact with him. He had mentioned on his application that he was fluent in English, I turned out to not be necessarily 100% true. But let me tell you what you could do, though, that that gentleman who designed a beautiful app, and actually when I took his designs at the end of the whole process, and he was very patient through it all and I you know, he let me revise the product as much as I wanted. When I took the developer to a development team in idea. One of the first things was when I sent the screens over to them, they’re like, who designed this for you? I’m like, Oh, you know, I hired someone. I’m like, why is there a problem with it? They’re like, actually, no, it’s the best that we’ve ever, you know, one of the best technical designs like he was able to, you know, design the whole app in such a way that when the developers took it over, it was very easy for them to make changes and make adjustments. And, you know, his design made the development process so much easier. And, you know, you don’t normally hear one Freelancer talk well of another freelancer. But yeah, that’s true. But I guess it just goes to show like, you know, certain skills are necessary for certain jobs, right. And it’s you to kind of decide what’s important for for the particular job that you’re, you’re,
Mike Beatty 21:48
you know, posting 100%. So, what’s kind of like the next step, then you’ve got the app. So is the app up and running, or is that
Moe Saghier 21:57
coming July 1 is the release of the app. So right now We’re in something called beta testing. Beta testing is when I reach out to a community of, you know, teachers whom I know. And I say, Okay, here’s the app, go ahead, use it. And then tell me any of the problems that you faced along the way. That’s the next step. So currently, myself and the developer, we’re going through that process ourselves. And, you know, basically, since we both have an intimate knowledge of the app, we’re being able to pick up little things along the way, because you know, the guys who code the app, they’re just, you know, oh, click this button, it goes here, that sort of thing. They might not necessarily understand the the nuanced features of the app. Yeah. So myself and the project lead are are working on that now. Soon, we’ll be looking for teachers, anybody who is particularly interested in, you know, being on to new technologies and helping out there so we’ll be testing amongst a group of our peers. And then it’s a release in June 1. We had intended The idea behind it was that we were going to be ready for December. Number 2020. Because, you know, that’s when the recruiting process started, but you know, would would technically start. We’re ahead of schedule. So I thought to myself, hey, with what’s going on in the world right now, why don’t we see if we can get the app out sooner or at least release the app sooner and see if we can help people be placed for September 2020. Since I’m sure everybody’s behind in the recruiting process, and, you know, there’s a lot of deals that have probably fallen through since the beginning of Corona. So, right now, the plan was July to December to you know, July, August to really just give it a give the give the product away, let people use it and interact with it and you know, for us as a as a, you know, as a entity or a business to learn from it See, see how How we can help how we are helping and what, what more we can do to help?
Mike Beatty 24:04
Yeah, you said, it’s like so many there are so many things there were I was thinking, um, it’s like I’ve just, I’ve read quite a lot of books in the last few years. And I was like, Yeah, you’ve just mentioned so many really important thing, like really important lessons. And I don’t know if you’ve read them before, but I’ll have to send them to you after actually, because they’re probably absolutely perfect for you. But trying to think of names of things called like the startup way, or you might the lean startup is his main one. Like that is a is basically exactly what you’re what you’ve just sort of said there. So rather than, like, back in the day, like a business, you had to spend all this thousands of dollars, get the products absolutely perfect. And well, that’s kind of what people think about businesses and things like that. Whereas the lean startup, it was almost like completely switched it. It’s like how can we do this for like, as cheap as possible. Like, get it like Like, test things, get out into real people, not just, you know, just us having a look at it, like, get actual teachers on it and get actual scores and stuff on to it and things like that, and actually get it working. Because it’s not until you do that is 100% no matter what you do you guaranteed to find things that go wrong, things that people don’t like, and you’re gonna have to change it, and he’s gonna have to, like keep changing. So that’s kind of the whole point of the book is like, How can you do this for like, low cost as possible, as quick as possible? Get it out into the real world. And then, you know, adapt pivar, like change things that you actually need to do. And then do it again. And like, you know, keep that process going for as quick and as low cost as possible. And basically, what is really
Moe Saghier 25:49
yeah, in the app world that’s called your MVP, your minimum viable product called where it’s like, you have an idea for an amazing app. But you don’t know if there’s a market for You know, you know, it’s never been done before. So you basically build a, like a very small version of the app, and you release it out there and you see what works and what doesn’t work. And then, you know, once you’ve generated then you could go and try to get funding. And then once you’ve gotten funding, you can really develop the app, you know, that you had intended.
But back to the toxic the idea of the lean startup, how important is reading and all of this,
Mike Beatty 26:29
honestly, is I don’t really think this is one of the things where this time, six years ago probably Yeah, like just before, it was almost just before we came to Qatar for the first time. I think I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, I think was the first one.
Moe Saghier 26:48
That’s the one for me. That’s the one that that just changed my mindset. Yeah,
Mike Beatty 26:52
exactly. And I just think the thing is the thing that that book did more than anything else, it’s not even the content or anything else. It is In still this like love of learning and wanting to improve and I think like any any startup like any online business owner anyone that wants to do like any of this kind of stuff I just feel like it’s so important like from again everyone I speak to there is an anyone that I spoke to who has been like yeah I haven’t read any books I’ve just done this like this every single person is like they they want to improve themselves and they go out of their way to do like self improvement self to whatever you want to call it, I just think is absolutely huge. Do you have you read any like really good ones that you can recommend?
Moe Saghier 27:39
That’s that’s the one for me of Rich Dad Poor Dad. I’ve been really into the Dave Ramsey stuff I tried to buy one of his I can’t remember the name of I don’t know. He’s He’s good though. He’s like he’s inspiration or he want he wants people to succeed and like and even like, if you see like the project Which he offers his, his his his content is just like it’s priced that anybody can can afford that. You know, it’s not like overly priced is not like these $300 online training courses like you could tell he’s out there for the people. He’s inspirational. I like what he does. But it was really that was a Rich Dad, Poor Dad. I like what I liked about Rich Dad Poor Dad was it didn’t speak down to you. Yeah, I mean, you can read it, it was easy to read, it made everything so simple. And it was like, definitely, you can do this. It’s like anybody can do this. You just have to, you have to, you know, but you have to, you have to put the time and you have to try you have to want and you have to, like, really be committed to it. Because I mean, there’s lots of things that you can do with your time and your energy and your money that you know, don’t necessarily get you, you know, get you further ahead
Mike Beatty 28:50
in life. No 100% and I do think there are some good ones or some bad ones. There are some like really no retirement at all. Man, that was a waste of time, but Yeah, no Dave Ramsey, I find that some people that inspire and like, try and make you want to learn more. And there’s other people that are like, this is how to do it and almost shut your brain off. And his books I’ve ever I think I read like two I think I stopped halfway through the second one, because I just didn’t like there was numerous things I didn’t like about what he did. I really like his like, Debt Snowball thing, and I really like, like, the more I’ve seen of him, like, want to see him on YouTube, and he’s got podcasts and things like that. I actually do be like, I’m actually like, yeah, now he’s, he’s definitely his hearts in the right place, definitely. But what I don’t like is that he doesn’t teach what he does. As in, he makes money through his businesses that he’s rich because of his businesses and his books and his products that he’s put out there. Whereas he’s teaching people to live below your means. Don’t Don’t use credit cards. You know, don’t buy a house with don’t buy a house with a mortgage. That’s apt Loop inside one that gets
Moe Saghier 30:01
me cuz like, we’re my wife and I were looking for a house right now and it just like, without you It shouldn’t be more than 25% of what you earn. And it shouldn’t be more than a 15 year mortgage. It’s like, well, what? And you know where we are in Canada where we priced that almost anything?
Mike Beatty 30:18
Yeah, I mean, I do agree like if it’s your own house, then yeah, you should try and get as mortgage free as possible. 100% like, that’s just the same as debt and things like that. But if it’s a rental property and it’s cash flowing, you want as much debt as you can possibly get because it’s bringing money into your pocket and it’s like this mindset. He almost closes people minds off to that and I didn’t really like that side of it. Yeah, like Robert Kiyosaki Rich Dad, Poor Dad. Actually, the F t is MJ DeMarco and that’s millionaire Fastlane and his blue having
Unknown Speaker 30:52
Unknown Speaker 30:55
not ever talked about.
Unknown Speaker 30:57
There’s probably no I’m
Mike Beatty 30:59
probably nothing like Compared to yours, but there definitely was a moment actually last year, it was just, it was a really stupid it was petty. I don’t know. It’s just probably a lot of happen that day. And you know, you just went like this one kid. But you’re like, why am I doing it? Like why am I actually doing this? And it just it literally made me think, why am I doing this? Is it is it even worth it? No, it wasn’t it wasn’t like one massive moment which is you know, like what this this guy talks off that that that book anyway, millionaire Fastlane and unscripted. His other one that it does perfect for business is honestly is so good. And it’s really, again, it’s more like it’s not saying this is what to do is more like his knowledge, like go and get more knowledge sort of thing. And I don’t know, I find those books are a way better because anyone that tells you like exactly what to do is, is closing your mind really and any I just think any entrepreneur in the end is not going to be able to, they’re not going to because you’re going to always gonna have challenges even if someone tells you exactly what to do. You’re always going to have to overcome things and figure stuff out by yourself. And it’s more like getting yourself equipped with those skills and figuring things out as you go, I think which is really important.
Unknown Speaker 32:25
There’s that Well, there’s one book called that I always wanted to read just because I had a catchy title on it. It’s ironic because I can’t think of the title right now. But it’s the four hour work
Mike Beatty 32:34
day, oh, four hour workweek by Tim Ferriss is a bit old. It’s not his best book. And but it is really good. What you’re doing is exactly it you know, like as in hiring other people to do stuff and things like that. But he Yeah, it’s good. It’s really good for like online businesses and things like that. And it his story was basically like he was really overworked doing his own business selling I don’t know, I think it was like protein shakes and stuff like that online. And he just realised he needed to stop. He went travelling outsourced a lot of his work and his business started growing and he was doing nothing, and he literally was doing the four hour workweek. But the big issue with that is that a lot of people read that or hear the title and think, oh, four hour workweek, whereas seems great. They miss they miss his whole like process, which is again, some of the MJ DeMarco talks about all the time is like this process is the process, not the event. Whereas he put in hours and he was putting like hundred hour workweeks in for like four years to grow his business and stuff. You know, it wasn’t it wasn’t a four hour workweek. It is not like he just went four hour workweek he was working. He was way overworked and then realise it wasn’t it was only when he took a step back and worked a four hour workweek that he he worked on the business rather than in the business and you know, that’s when it could like, grow
Unknown Speaker 34:00
That step back is like so important like, fate like there’s you know, all these is when you start this process of, you know, trying to start create something for yourself all these, you know, sayings or quotes that you’ve heard along the way start making sense. Making Sense like, you know, you learn more in failure than you do in success. Like it’s true. It’s like when you’ve had you’ve had that kind of moment where you’re like, not doing as well as you thought you should have been. You really come away with a lot more than than all those times that you were successful or you did get the job or you did get the promotion, that sort of thing.
Mike Beatty 34:37
Yeah. Now I just think it’s so important now like that whole mindset thing. I know some people see it as like airy fairy and whatever, but the more that you can kind of, it doesn’t have to be a lot and that’s it. A really good book for that is the slight edge, which is really good just for like habits and things like that. And it’s similar to like the compound effects. There’s A few books like that. But I think they’re really good at just emphasising the fact that he talks about just just read 10 pages a day. So like 10 pages before bed, but anyone can do it. It’s easy to do. But it’s also easy not to do. And the people that end up doing well are those that consistently do those tiny small habits that same with like fitness, you know, health, like if you’re, if you put in a little bit of exercise each day, and you don’t have that piece of cake each day. It like compounds and eventually you get like big results and things like that, but you can’t see it. And that’s the thing where you won’t notice it’s not like there’s gonna be a switch that changes. It’s just, if you look back over five years or something, there’s huge changes basically. But it’s all a matter, all super useful. But anyway, moment, I always are someone who just was ending the podcast, and I’m going to try and pick a day Now let’s let’s go back then let’s go back to when you were in Kuwait and you went you had the one recruitment. You had the one like, call to go
Moe Saghier 36:12
Yeah, recruiter interview with her
Mike Beatty 36:15
to go to the school. If you could go back to that day, you know, you’ve just had the interview you both realise are now we’re not going to go to the school. What would be like one piece of advice you could give to yourself, then knowing everything that you know now? Oh,
Moe Saghier 36:34
I’m not sure if it was a piece of advice. I think I was like, I’d like to go back and you know, give myself a pat on the back for making that decision. You know what I mean? Like sticking up for yourself and just saying no, this is this is not what we want and don’t you know, don’t take something that’s, that’s not for you eg it’s, you know, being here. It’s really important to be yourself and and, you know, Put yourself in successful situations. I really thought this was gonna be a question about the future, not the past, he asked me a question about the future, and where are you gonna be in five years, five years, you know, the whole idea behind the adventures recruitment, by the way is to be a, a, I, you know, I don’t know if everybody says this, or this is just very naive of me at this point. Again, we’re all constantly learning, we’re constantly evolving, especially when you’re, you know, in an industry that you didn’t know much about 12 months ago. The idea behind it is to be so so prevailing in the community of international teachers is that we can start handing out some scholarships or start working with some of the schools that are working, you know, that are working with us and, you know, start finding some money, you know, because like even in Qatar and Kuwait, not everybody, not everybody were, you know, not everybody had the same crack at it and some students were going to schools that, you know, That didn’t push them to achieve. So the idea behind this is to get so, you know, ingrained in the community that we start having partnerships and we say, Okay, let’s, how can we bring a scholarship to your school? And how can we fund that that child or that student for the next five or six years and get them to high school and get him a chance to, you know, possibly go to university somewhere out there? But But definitely the idea is to promote education. Again, we’re always you know, always the teacher about to promote education by using you know, structures and and processes that are already in place, simplifying them, earning from them and then reinvesting in the community.
Mike Beatty 38:46
Moe Saghier 38:47
Yeah, I think that might be more than five years, though. That might be a 10 year
Mike Beatty 38:51
mission. You never know. that’s a that’s a really good quote that you should definitely remember is let me get it right. You can accomplish a lot more than what you think in 10 years, but a lot less than what you think in one year. Or the other way around.
Unknown Speaker 39:11
But no, no, I think you got it right. Well, yeah, that makes. Yeah. But yeah,
Unknown Speaker 39:16
there’s there’s a long time. Right,
Mike Beatty 39:18
exactly. I think most people underestimate what they can achieve in 10 years. Yeah, one year, most people overestimate what they can achieve. So bear that in mind this time next year.
Unknown Speaker 39:31
We’ll see where we are next year. Maybe we’ll be back here with different news for
Mike Beatty 39:34
Yeah, no, definitely. That’d be good. If anyone does want to get in contact with your mo or like, you know, just go to your website or something like that. What’s the best place
Moe Saghier 39:44
so you can reach me at admin at EDV recruit .com. So that stands for adventures, the first three letters of Edventures and recruitment. EDV recruit .com or you could follow us on our social media. accounts or our website is something newly developed something that some work that I purchased off Upwork as well. adventures recruitment .com.
Mike Beatty 40:09
Awesome. Thanks so much. It’s been a pleasure. I appreciate it. So I really enjoyed that chat, because Moser really cool guy. And just, you can see his whole thought process and everything that’s going on. And it’s really exciting what he is doing. So I really hope that is really helpful as well, because I’m going to summarise just like the main four takeaways that I took from the chat with him, just to kind of put it all in perspective in one place. So number one is just start. If you’ve got an idea, it doesn’t, it’s useless unless you actually execute and take some sort of action. You know, so most first action was actually researching it. Just you’ve got to actually do it. You’ve got to actually start putting in time and effort and actually doing something. Otherwise, nothing’s ever going to take place. If you’re listening to this podcast, I’m guessing you’re already doing that anyway. But number two is to keep on learning. Like as you’re going as you’re, as you’re, as you’re getting these things, as you’re starting to realise what you do need to do, you need to keep learning he needs to keep like improving and things like that. And so it might be reading books, you might be a mentor, which kind of leads on to number three, which is find someone who has done what you want to do. If you can find someone has done exactly what you want to do, and connect with them. Then if you can find a way to make like a mentorship or just coaching or like whatever it is, if you can do that it’s gonna save so much time. Like Moe said, there’s so many things that he’s just like sidetracked or sidestepped, I should say, avoided so many pitfalls, just because this guy’s already done exactly what he’s doing. And he’s telling him what he did. So it’s just a great idea for any kind of business model that you have any interest in doing. And number four is You probably have more skills and experience than what you actually think. And Moe kind of realised that all of his experience in the past has actually really helped a lot of the things that he was doing now such as like he’s done interview, when he was a principal in a previous school, he did lots of interviews, and during the whole hiring process and finding like a freelancer and to outsource some work to was just so helpful. Even if you haven’t done even if you haven’t interviewed people for it, chances are you’ve been in interviews before you’ve like seen what does work and what doesn’t work. But it just, you probably have more skills, and you probably have a better idea of how to do these things than what you may even think we give yourself credit for. So just be aware of your experiences and things that you’ve done before. And that’s probably going to really help what you’re doing in the future. Anyway, I’m not gonna just carry on rambling. I really hard that was helpful, and I’ll catch you on the next one. Thanks for listening in to this episode of making Time online, be sure to subscribe to our podcast so you don’t miss any future episodes. And please take a moment to write a review for our podcast in the App
Store. keep changing for the better guys. Take care.
Here were my main takeaways from the chat...
- Just start
- Keep learning
- Find someone who has done what you want to do
- You have more skills and experience than you think
What were your main takeaways? Any questions? Drop a comment below…
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I love the podcast and your article it gives basics on how to start up a online business, You’re right about taking more time and reflect on your actions and mistakes I thing that is the biggest take away for me I am putting more time in my business and reflecting on all of my actions and mistakes.
The podcast It’s self really does explain a lot and helps people that are just starting out like myself I would give it a listen and take notes on the podcast.
I feel like you could put a little more in your article like explain a little more on starting up an online business But other than that it is a good read and listen for all levels.
My question is how can some one effectually step back and spend more time on their business?
Thank you, Mike for the amazing article!
To Your Success,
Hey Alberto, thanks for the comment and your feedback, glad it helped!
If you would like to learn how I started an online business then you can do so here.
If your question you mean how can people spend more time working on their business rather than in it? To answer that question I think the start will always take hard work. It’s important to do a lot of the tasks and operations yourself so you can figure out what does and doesn’t work and what needs to be done to produce income.
Once your generating revenue you can look to outsource specific tasks to other qualified people and give them a clear step by step process of what to do.
If you mean how can you spend more time on your business instead of life/ other work? Then it’s all about priorities. Even if you’re super busy, spending an hour each morning before anyone wakes up starts building the habit. Maybe you watch TV in the evening that could be replaced with time to dedicate to the business.
I hope that answers your question and thanks for checking it out
Mindset is definitely critical when starting up in any business and it’s amazing how many people don’t realise that there’s actually a lot of pre-planning involved. There’s no such thing as a get rich quick scheme, it does require hard work and effort. But if it’s done with the right mindset from the start then there’s no reason why anyone can’t have a successful business.
Too true Jyl!
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